Tuesday, July 17, 2007

God Sends Good People to Hell. Really?

This would be utterly laughable if it were not so heartbreakingly sad. Dr. Robert Jeffress of "Pathway to Victory" gives a two part series on "God Sends Good People to Hell." Part one begins with a statement that says, "Why we can say with confidence that God does send good people to hell."

Wow. That's amazing. With Confidence? You mean to tell me that is good news?

Oh yes. Quote the famous atheists and their comments on everlasting torture. Why not quote Paul, " For God delivered all to disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all." (Romans 11:32).

How ironic...the "Pathway to Victory" is God sending people to hell. Besides using Jonathan Edwards as the model, it is really sad to take the Gahenna passages in the New Testament out of their context and condemn the vast majority of humanity to an eternal torture chamber. I've never heard of anyone criticizing the Pope on his lax doctrine on hell, but Mr. Jeffress does just that. Then he says that Jesus talks about hell becuase he loves us. Ok, consider what Jesus says in Luke 13. Perhaps it has nothing to do with one's eternal destiny. I wrote a little something on it about three years ago entitled Turn or Burn.

Then he says that Jesus talks about hell because he was so us so concerned about this awful reality that he didn't one a single one of us to spend eternity there. Well, then why didn't he do something about it? Why didn't he take care of it for us? O wait a minute....

Mr. Jeffres says that Jesus warned us to do everything we can to avoid it. How's that for a gospel of works?

Anyway, Mr Jeffres offers a couple of possibilities. One, Jesus's teachings on Gahenna (Jeffress says "hell") equate to his understanding of hell. Two, Jesus deceived us. Obviously Jesus didn't deceive us so Jesus must have understood hell as this religious leader does.

At one point, he is explicating the Greek words translated as hell, he says "I don't have time to go into all that." Hell! If you're going to tell people that they will most likely go there, you ought to find some time. Then he tells me I can't think of a worse place than the literal Valley of the Son of Hinnom. Yes, it was (and is) horrible. Yet is it any worse that sitting through talk in which a man tells you that you will be tortured by God for all eternity? What's worse? A parent killing a baby or a "god" eternally torturing the vast majority of his children? Is God really so "loving" that he has to torture us? That's what Mr Jeffress says. How is that love? It sound like an abused child who believes his father beat him because "he loves me." Thank you, sir, may I have another?

Then in part 2 he dares to say that he hears young people saying that they want to go to hell so they can party with their friends. I challenge you, Mr Jeffress, to tell us any time you heard anyone say this. Don't use empty rhetorical devices to enlist support for your position. Don't use people -- especially teenagers -- to support your theological position. That, sir, is utterly reprehensible.

I don't understand why we are so reluctant to embrace the reality of God being all-in-all. About God being love. About God reconciling all things to himself -- yes that's in the Bible, Acts 3:21, Colossians 1, etc.

Curious, Mr Jeffress wrote a book called Second Chance, Second Act: Turning Your Messes into Successes. So, let me get this straight. You can make a second chance for your life and turn your mess into a success. But God can't? Are you kidding me? You are more powerful and capable than God?

Have you ever noticed that Paul never speaks of hell (Gahenna) to the Gentile audience? Maybe Gahenna had special significance to those who knew about it best.

What's up with the fetish for punishment? God is not into BDSM. God takes no pleasure in the death of one who dies. God gets no glory by torturing people made in the divine image. "O death where is your sting? O hades, where is your victory?"

Sin and its death has no victory. No victory. Thanks be to God who gives us the victory.

If you want to take a good look at the way Jesus speaks of hell, I'd invite you to read Brian McLaren's book The Last Word and The Word After That.

Now, it's time for some Good News. "Scripture, which saw in advance that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, foretold the good news to Abraham, saying, 'Through you shall all the nations be blessed.'" (Galatians 3:8).

Did you get that? Blessed, not cursed. Loved, not abandoned. Welcomed, not rejected. Al nations, not just a small group. Call it what you will. For me it is simply the Love of the God who is Love being all in all (not all in some, not some in a few, not none in none).

11 comments:

Don R said...

Kevin- This is a very powerful post. It shows the unconscionable viewpoint taken by some Christian "leaders". I keep saying I don't understand how anyone could believe God could be "that way". Then, I remember that I was a party to those self-same beliefs for most of my adult life.
I just might have to link to this post if it's OK with you. I know so, so many people personally who need to read it. Thank you for your insightful post.

Kevin Beck said...

Hi Don,
Thanks for stopping by and posting. I'd be honored and humbled if you'd link to it.

I understand where the pastor is coming from. Like you, this is what I believe most of my life, namely God loves the word so much that he'll send almost everyone to everlasting torture. I assume that he believes it in good faith The problem is that there is more to it than his superficial understanding -- as you already know.

I just think that there is another way to read the Bible -- one that deals directly with the "difficult" texts and doesn't simply dismiss them while at the same time being true to the reality that God is Love and perfect love casts out fear.

Blessings,
kevin

graham old said...

Hi Kevin,

Sublime post.

I have actually heard people saying that they would prefer to go to hell, but they were clearly simply choosing one exaggerated stereotype over another.

Nevertheless, great post. Thanks.

graham old said...

Btw, I was hunting down agapetheism domains for you, but all of the decent top level ones are already taken.

SteveW said...

Kevin, my hats off to you. You hit a homer here. I'm linking too.

micah said...

The "Chick Tracts" are similar to this viewpoint. If you've ever read them, the kids in those are always saying:

"But I thought hell was one big party, where all my friends are."

What???

Does anyone actually say that? Maybe some heavy metal singers are into pseudo-satanism, but I've never heard the above quote from a real live person.

I NEVER thought that "hell" was a pleasant doctrine. But I believed it because I was very logical about my beliefs. I wanted to believe what the bible said, whether it was something I liked or not.

But at the age of 15, I did some contextual reading in the Old Testament, and realized - guess what - hell isn't in the bible.

I'm sure 1500 years of church theologians were well-intentioned when they made it up, though.

-micah

Cliff said...

Great post Kevin. I'm so glad SteveW linked this to our site. I hope many will read it.

Cliff

Anonymous said...

Hi kevin,to think i listened to this sort of teaching and taught it myself is just beyond me now that i know the truth.The gospel is all about life ,not death.The gospel is glorious and full of steadfast hope for our forrunner has entered in throught the vail and has appeared in the presence of God FOR US.And has obtained eternal redemption FOR US.This man has clearly not left the doctrines of christ behind and went on into perfect.Hebrews 6v1,..Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God.

Kevin my friend as you well know we have been saved by the faith of the son of God who loved us and gave himself for us.This was Gods faith toward us.And oh how he demonstraighted it to us all in his beloved son.He delivered his entire creation from the law of sin and death and delivered us all into the kingdom of life.There is no bad news in the goodnews.

Thankyou for this post kevin i hope many will read it and be set free in their minds.And come to the knowledge as it tells us in col,1 v20-22,.. 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight.

Have a grace filled day.
kenneth

Kevin Beck said...

Hi all,
Thanks for stopping by and posting.

Graham,
I really love your site. You always have great stuff and such a gentle yet confident spirit. That's inspiring. I appreciate you looking into the domains. A friend has acquired them and holding them for me.

Micah,
Isn't it funny what we might discover if we set aside what others tell us and start looking into things for ourselves? I need to contact you and talk about a project you might be able to help me with.

Steve and Cliff,
Thanks for linking. All of us need to be enlightened witnesses (to use Alice Miller's term) to let people know there are alternatives to the bad news that masquerades a "good."

Blessings to all

nic paton said...

Hi Kevin
Thank you for your sharing of a Life-oriented point of view. The issue has been close to my heart of late; I have put in a lot of study, and think that I am now over the brow of the hill. I have a lot of time for people honestly trying to deconstruct their incorrect notions, but as you are aware others are absolutely reluctant to let go of heresy.

I have spent a lot of time on Gary Amaraults Tentmaker site. It has some very wonderful resources. I have started reading FW Farrars 500 page "Mercy and Judgement", http://www.tentmaker.org/books/mercyandjudgment/mercy_and_judgment_ch1.html - this is a superb piece of theology taking almost 2000 years of thought into account.

I have just been through a wild 2 weeks on my blog with a defense of Carlton Pearson's views attracting a wide range of opinion, for which I am glad - take a look at http://soundandsilence.wordpress.com/2007/06/21/the-scandal-of-bishop-carlton-pearson/

Further to this I am trying to correlate Inclusion with Incarnation, so your Brian McLaren recommendation is timely - thanks. Any comments here most welcome!

Kevin Beck said...

Thanks Nic. I'll check out your stuff. You'll love Brian's book. It's amazing.
Blessings,
Kevin